If only those were storm clouds, we’d have quite the metaphor going!
Poor RIM. One or two analysts lower your stock rating from “buy” to “neutral” (or the equivalent), and then your stock drops some 16 percent. You know who to blame, too: it’s those busybodies at Apple and Palm, what with their iPhones and Palm Pres eating into your bottom line. (Never mind that your own “iPhone killer” was sorta meh.) What is RIM to do?
That’s the basic scenario that’s been playing out over the past few days. A couple of those big research firms downgraded RIM stock, and now its stock price isn’t doing too well. Not that a corporation’s stock price will affect our day, of course, but it’s indicative of one things: RIM isn’t doing as well as it’d like to be doing.
So what’s causing the run on the stock? Yes, it’s partially competition from Apple, which, with each successive iPhone OS update, is becoming more and more “business friendly.” The same can be said about the Palm Pre, but perhaps to a lesser extent.
The fact is, the BlackBerry isn’t the only device on the market anymore that gives you mobile access to your e-mail. And if you have a new sales staff of recent grads begging IT to let them use their iPhone on the corporate network, well, there you go.
So where does RIM go from here? Should it keep plugging along with its attempts to make a touchscreen phone, or should it say, “Nuts to this rat race. We’re the king of the QWERTY device, and that’s our market, gosh darn it?” Presumably RIM executives would be using harsher language than that!
RIM should try to buy palm and start using webOS
acquire a strategic mobile presence for location based services like nokia/dopplr
Buying Palm won’t help them. They are an insanely strong company, but if they want to keep their status, they need to compete with Apple on their level: The Interface. Their UI sucks and the new touchscreen Blackberries haven’t done much to help the UI. If they can refine the UI, they will be players for a long time to come.
I agree. That and openness of API’s that integrate with other software like iTunes, .Mac, etc.
Presumably, they can start their own ’small business’ web apps that integrate into the network.
The blackberry platform has been a tried and true performer in the enterprise for years because 1) It’s developer platform is completely decoupled from the OS platform meaning that developers can develop applications freely without approval, 2) Blackberry has been doing email securely and efficient for a very long time.
Palm and Apple both have very strong platforms but we will only see that advantage with time. RIM has nothing to worry about for at least another 5 to 10 years.
Another 5 to 10 years?
Try, less than 5……MUCH less than 5.
@Olternaut
I think other fruity companies have a lot more to worry about than Blackberry over the next 5 years to be honest.
True. RIM has time, they just need to get their act in gear for their next gen devices/OS.
meggman–you might be interested in this article RE RIM’s acquisition of Torch Mobile which leveraged webkit in their browser: http://www.mediapost.com/publications/?fa=Articles.showArticle&art_aid=114161
On some level, isn’t it obvious that failure to drive a robust software platform around RIMM devices is what has killed their growth story?
In other words, the “we’re doing land grab, and will re-coup margins on software and services” belies the fact that that dog only hunts if you HAVE a viable software and services strategy.
And by viable, I mean passes the sniff test relative to the iPhone Platform (either by doing as good of a job or solving a different problem).
Call me a skeptic, but feels orthogonal to their DNA.
For more fodder on this point, check out my post:
iPhones, App Stores and Ecosystems
bit.ly/xcP8T
Cheers,
Mark
No, it isn’t obvious. Not every company has to follow Apple’s model for continued success. It is not even clear that RIMM wants to make a large play for the consumer market.
RIMMs failure was not acquiring the assets of Nortel, which ERIC walked away with, preventing RIMM from going vertical with telco hardware and services.
Both are interesting points, but I think Mark is more on point. The fact is RIMM has been hitting a ceiling in its core market of North American business for years already. Pursuing the broad consumer market was the correct strategy, but what have they really done to address that market? Re-packaged the same software in smaller, sleaker, cooler packages, that’s about it.
And looking at their growth in terms of subscription profile between corporate and individual it seems to be effective.
I think peple forget that the iPhone – great phone that it is – is pretty niche in terms of appeal, is kind of hittign a ceiling and is pretty much screwed when someone brings out a better phone.
That’s where companies like Nokia and RIM win and why they lead the market – they realise that fashions will change (Nokia’s refusal to become heavily involved with clamshell phones is a classic example) and they don’t put their eggs in one basket.
Unless Apple actually realise this then they’re going to screw up this market in the same way they did the PC market because they want too much control and are trying to push everyone towards one solution in what is an extremely fickle market primarily drive by fashion.
The Blackberry is a one trick pony, I know because I have one. It’s OS in its current form is meant for and will always be meant for messaging! If you like You Tube and Web Surfing just to name a few multimedia Apps, cash out your Berry and go with the competition ie.. Apple, WebOs, Android. On the other hand, if you are an invester, short the stock. In a year or sooner, RIM will undoubtedly have a revamped OS running Web Kit..
RIM has been very very aggressive offering 2×1 on selected models, this could mean more sales, but in the long run it means less money and this is what is happening now, 8.3 milllions Blackberry out, but not enough in the pocket.
Mr. President, please reply on this thread how you run the USA using your Bberry. *cough cough*
I’m kinda partial to the webOS/Palm idea, and have been for a while. The end game is that RIM’s hardware is fine. It’s software is dated. They need to make their platform more attractive to developers (easy to use, pre-fab everything, open up the API). That’s really all the anyone has over RIM at the moment. RIM has marketshare. Imagine if they released a significant OS update that was webOS-like and all you had to do was install it and you’d have a brand new BlackBerry!
RIM should make a touch+qwerty combo with Android much like Motorola has done. That would be a slick phone :-D
Agreed!
If they intend on entering the consumer market, they should be considering the Android OS for *some* of their models. I say some because they should keep their enterprise line with their standard OS.
i agree, Motorola are very smart, Sanjai, their CEO has made a huge gamble on Android but has focused the company very well.
I will not be surprised if there sales jump up very nicely.
Seconded, RIM has been saying, or at least there have been roumors forever about coming out with a touch/QWERTY phone. They need to get this out! People aren’t going to ditch their curves to rush out for the tour or a newer version of the same trick pony. New, different product=new sales=more money.
If I were RIM I’d wonder what Palm had to do to get you to position them next to Apple like that.
It undermines the editorial integrity of MobileCrunch to omit things like Verizon’s rejection of the Pre- Palm’s own “storm level” fail.
http://www.thestreet.com/story/10603148/1/exclusive-verizon-snubs-palm-pre.html
I never thought I’d see the day that the tech news on The Street is more accurate than CrunchGear.
Yikes.
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/09/25/confirmed-verizon-wireless-will-sell-the-palm-pre/
Don’t you feel foolish.
That rumor was false, clown. Verizon customers WILL be getting their Pres.
The main reason I feel bad for RIM, is articles like this. Actually, RIM’s marketshare has grown steadily ever since the iPhone came out. All indications would be that the iPhone and RIM both are eating into Nokia’s and Windows Mobile’s share.
I fail to see how the iPhone is “eating” RIM share, when RIM has 3 of the top 5 (including number 1) devices, at least as of the newest numbers I can find:
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/hiner/?p=2357
In fact, looking at the list of the top 10 that the big looser is WinMo, not RIM.
This is also true. Analysts just stir the pot. I for one will take this opportunity to buy RIM stock on the prospect that the will CONTINUE to sell a boatload of devices quarter over quarter over quarter.
I am in no means an iPhone fanboy. Don’t own one and don’t plan on it (like the Pre better) but the iPhone has only been around two years, yet accounts for 32% of the industry revenue. That is staggering when you consider that the company has not been making phones up until 2007.
http://fonefrenzy.com/2009/08/13/iprofit-the-iphone-money-making-machine/
RIM needs to completely revamp their OS and start over or they can kiss their market share goodbye to the likes of Apple, Palm’s webOS and Android platforms.
I’m not sure how you connect the two actually. Apple make one premium product and charge a huge mark up for it.
So, yeah, lots of revenue but that means diddly squat when talking about market share, product diversity and long term stability.
In my opinion, Blackberries are terribly outdated, and overrated, and the OS is not user-friendly, especially if you switch to a BB from another phone.
And it’s terribly slow compared to Android or Apple.
Also I don’t think there are not enough 3G compatible BBS.
But here is a nice value adding feature for BB’S:
http://www.2-phones-in-1.com/blog/?p=87
Try manufacturing a phone that doesn’t only do 1 thing well, email.
Other than that, there phones are pretty much worthless compared to the competition. iPhone, Pre and 1 or 2 others.
Now that’s simply ignorant, but thanks for showing up.
Blackberry has a lock on the current gov/ big biz markets where security is a priority. It’s the only vendor that isolates communications through it’s own network centres. It’s solid hardware and secure encryption give it the edge these situations.
Where the devices let you down is in the consumer market areas. With it’s lackluster browser, even opera while good, it’s no match for the iPhone or Pre in the markets that value content over messaging. The Pre, the blackberry and the iPhone all excel at messaging, with either the virtual or physical keyboards, so the blackberry has no edge in the consumer markets.
In my view, it also faces future competition from the iPhone in the business arena. The current issues relating to secure communications for the iPhone are mainly software related and since software is something the Apple does well, it not an insurmountable problem for the guys in cupertino when they decide that it’s an area that try feel is worth pursuing. Apple’s excellent interface in the iPhone and the devices capabilities will continue to make solid gains in the business arenas.
Blackberry will need to make radical improvements in their devices to peak the interest of those in the market for smartphones. The three areas that really need improvement are:
1. the browser. It’s slow and limited and fails to fetch many of the more intensive web 2.0 pages that many sites sport. Hopefully the purchase Torch Mobile will bring needed changes to market in a timely fashion.
2. The screen. It’s gonna need to get bigger and be more touch activated. The Bold failed here, buggy software and some strange attempts to mimic the keyboard feel made for a disappointing user experience, especially when it was compared to the iPhone.
3. Apps. Here RIM is doing a reasonable job with it’s own app store. The chief difference here is the difference in langauges for the platform, objective C for Apple, Java for RIM and webOS for Palm. Here Apple does have an advantage as it’s dev software as many slick options for integrating it with the OS. Palm has it dev tools surrounded the common web tools of JavaScript, HTML and css whichake things simpler for those with that background.
RIM needs to drive something to kick start their apps store. Perhaps a coding contest, or something else to help drive some energy back into helping RIM regain visibility.
If they don’t do something soon, it may be that RIM will be relagates it to an also-ran. It would take a few years, and RIM would still have a presence in the market, but the power and draw that it now holds would wane.
Just to be fair, I have a work provided blackberry Curve, but our company is moving in the direction of the iPhone as we are a small dot com firm. But I am writing on an iPod touch.
Bastien
Sent from my iPod
Did you just refer to the Bold as RIM’s touchscreen device? As for kick starting their app store, they’ve had contests, and they have the BB Developers Fund. It’s not that. The device is difficult to develop for, and there are not UI standards. Each app looks different because it’s up to the developer to build the UI. If the developer is a good coder, but not a graphic designer, the app will look like junk, despite how well it works.
Moog,
Sorry about the brainfart..put it down to Friday night beers…I meant the Storm.
And I would have to agree with you, the devices are difficult to develop for. It the point I was awkwardly making.
Creating a set of standards or a comprehensive framework along the same lines as what apple allows a developer would go a long way towards making the user experience more cohesive and simplifying the job of the developer when creating apps.
Doing something along these lines may do more to generate some real buzz around the development of new apps on the devices. This would drive some new interest in the consumer market, though as mentioned, RIM seems to be still a bit shaky on committing to this. Though, at least from a Canadian perspective, this may be in part due to the horrendous data rates and packages that are available to subscribers from any of the big three providers in Canada.
The competition is not really Apple/Palm, but Microsoft, by making ActiveSync work and popular, and even Google using it now, RIM becomes obsolete. Their value was in push .. Everybody can do push now.
Not as well as RIM does.
I disagree. I’ve used Windows Mobile 5.0 phones and BB’s with Exchange.
I have to tell you that the Windows Mobile device got mail just the same as the BB does.
The unfortunate thing is that the BB is only good at e-mail. And only if you don’t really care about attachments.
The basic usability of the Windows Mobile phone is much higher than the BB is.
I guess I’d better define “better”;
RIM has, what Jim B calls, a “shadow network” that allows them to control the data. They are essentially acting as an ISP behind the scenes, optimizing and compressing BB data. This directly translates into less bandwidth consumption for the carrier (see AT&T’s problems with capacity) and improved battery performance for devices (more data being trasnmitted in smaller chunks).
Also, if I recall correctly, the Windows ActiveSync technology essentially requires a TCP ssh connection to be kept open in order for “push” data to work. This too is costly on battery life. With RIM’s solution, this isn’t required.
In the short term RIMM is safe. They have a fairly secure lock on the business market and they are better than Nokia. So Apple, RIMM and Palm will grow at Nokia’s expense. Longer term RIMM should worry a lot about Apple. Over the longer term Apple is adding not just features (like a better screen, longer battery life) which RIMM could also provide, Apple is growing its ecosystem of hardware/software/content so that when you get an iPhone it is not just a phone but it is a portal to your music, your videos, your friends, the internet and who knows what will come next. More and more people expect 24/7 connection to everything. RIMM will look more and more like a reliable, but archaic Studebaker (Google it).
at nokia’s expense? nokia has 40% global marketshare, i think they’re fine.
RIM has already got a good hold of the corporate market but there’s not going to be a lot of growth from that. Investors like growth.
RIM needs a better strategy to enter the consumer market. I have yet to see a workable strategy aside from selling cheaper products. It’s not really “cool” to have a blackberry.
RIM products have basically been the same device throughout the entire design history. The screen got bigger and it got thinner. RIM needs to make a big design change to cater to general consumers. Sure you can keep the same design for business users but if you want growth (good for the stock), they’ll need to make some changes.
Investment advice:
Buy RIMM, Short PALM.
and ignore the article, it is B.S
Palm’s 500k sales of Pre “eat” into 8.3 million RIM sales, doesnt make any sense, maybe apple is causing a problem, but not Palm
why does everyone ignore the fact that RIM’s opp. is outside north america?
RIM will be fine. They have a winner with Blackberry. They may be going through a little rough patch right now; but when all is said & done; RIM will be on top of the wireless world & KING once again. No doubt there.
thank you rim pr
Go to http://darrelacity.webs.com/ if you like a blog,music, or good entertainment.It rocks!!!!
It wasn’t a terrible quarter for Rimm, just not as good as the analyst had hoped for. I think they rebound over the coming months.
I love iPhone people who basically want RIM to make .. and iPhone. Anyone who wants an iPhone knows where to get one and Apple has had their own growth issues. Each model has a huge launch (from the previous owners upgrading) but sales then quickly decline as for most consumers that everyone on here is so eager to cater to – DON’T WANT TO SPEND $$$ for a data plan. People in the states are 1. cheap and 2. could care less what is the best, they want something that works.
Blackberry works period. For what it does its the best thing out there – bar none. I know because I support mobile devices for a living the past 8 years for a large enterprise company. I get pretty much every device that comes out and presently have a 3Gs, Bold, Tour and Pre. If I want to play with “apps – read games” and have a need for media, iPhone is it. But please it is not a business device like a Blackberry. It’s CAPABLE but only in the eyes of a consumer who doesn’t rely on a mobile device. I have had CEO’s all eager to use one and within a week they are begging me for a Blackberry back.
The thing no one seems to grasp is that core Blackberry users (you know people that work) hardly ever use Apps .. yeah sure they’ll think its cool to have google maps, a weather app and maybe a sports scoreboard but thats about it. 90% of their time is about messaging. Why do you think email is the #1 critical application to corporate world? Next is their calendar / contacts .. thats it. They spend their day doing that.
Now iPhone and Pre are great casual user devices that have some best of the kind features but frankly after awhile I get bored and just use the Blackberry as I too mostly want a working phone and messaging. I’ve likely tried hundreds of Apps over the last few years and I can name maybe 6 I use often.
I don’t want my mobile device to play music, don’t want to watch video, rarely use any of them for internet as lets face it mobile internet is still pretty slow even on 3G and is just clunky. I could careless about photo/video capabilties as the quality sucks .. I have a nice SLR 10+ megapixel if I want to take photos.
So what do should RIM do? Yeah I’d like a better OS, the precision theme is boring at least theres tons of themes to download if I wanted. Now I have to admit anything more visual will likely knock the battery life some and I’d rather have a longer lasting battery. I swear the iPhone can barely last 4-5 hours of similar Blackberry use. Why do I have to turn basically everything off to get a full days use (meaning 6pm).
RIM is working away at some things, they keep refreshing their product line. Do I think they need something totally unlike anything out there? There is only so many form factors that will work in a smartphone if you want robust functionality. If they make a good webkit browser it would likely solve most of their user gripes.
And please .. everyone stop falling for these morons who play with the market to paid their own pocket. I’d love the SEC records of their sales pre and post these quarterly reports. Scare the market .. buy low .. ride it up and repeat.
+1
This post is great and to the point I think.
Do not underestimate hype/cool/integrated, however, MS didn’t kick Novell out of SMEs because it was more solid.
+1
+1
Exactly.
RIM needs a faster operating system, better UI presentation and a Webkit browser. It isn’t all that complicated. We may well see all three with the OS 5 final release.
As things currently stand, the OS takes too long to boot, it isn’t quite as slick in terms of UI operation as the iPhone in that it doesn’t seem quite as fast and the icons look too similar to one another, the typography is horrible and could so easily be fixed with a better font choice and anti-aliasing, and as for the browser you shouldn’t have to instantly ditch the Blackberry browser and go to Opera Mini.
But seriously, is any one of these so serious that it will take more than a few months to fix? That could be the answer right there — if Blackberry doesn’t fix these relatively modest but annoying problems quickly, it won’t be a deal-breaker for now but it could be a sign of a deeper rot in the company, the kind of operations that got Motorola into such deep trouble.
OS 5 will be the proof of the pudding for the software.
As for the hardware Blackberry has the best choice of smartphones in that they’re the only company offering them in flip, touchscreen AND keyboard, and the leaks suggest that the remaining flaws are fast being fixed — trackballs giving way to trackpads; the Storm 9530’s ludicrous mechanical click screen giving way to one that uses electronic feedback; signs of a sense of urgency with regard to quality assurance issues; and Verizon’s resistance to WiFi finally broken.
So we know the hardware is being fixed and positioned to be the best in the business, providing more choice in better designed packages than anyone else, and we’re waiting on the software. The stock rates a hold until OS 5 comes out, and then we can re-evaluate.
“…the icons look too similar to one another”
Ever hear of BB themes?
“the typography is horrible and could so easily be fixed with a better font choice and anti-aliasing”
You can customize the fonts AND they do have anti-aliasing. Wake up and know your facts before spouting off your garbage.
needs a faster OS? have you used the OS on the bold? it is snappy. have you tried to open an app on the iphone? toggle email? it takes eons.
that is an easy question to answer.
Jim Basille should donate w/ service for 3-5-10 years included, several thousand mobile BlackBerry devices for each NHL teams home cities Non Profit organizations and/or Non Governmental Organizations, in the names of the local NHL teams owners.
The PR Juice off of it coupled w/ an NHL team nod 4 him to buy as he buys off the owners towns, will provide them with enough corporate penetration and public good karma and faith to sustain a good business for many many years.
So provided they continue to upgrade quality, features, reliability, app access, usability, interoperability, lowered costs + longer batt lifes.
But hey I hear Jim does things just the way he likes em…
so I worry he’ll never read any of this… and never would…
@soma__ the boss around where i hang around alot is very very interested in what the palm pre has shown in the main stream media adverts…
she seems very attracted to how it appears to have superior UI + ergonomics. + coupled qwerty + touch.
“appears to” being key. After using a Pre for a few weeks, you notice that the keyboard is a pain in the ass to use. That little lip at the bottom, and being tucked under the base of the screen make it difficult to type.
thanks for the heads up i’ll let @soma__ know your experience.. cheers
I’m genuinely interested to hear what the execs have to say. I’ll keep an eye out for your post. :)
@soma__ has certainly stepped back from her early Palm Pre yearnings.. it seems too much hesitation in the data pool out here…
next step to visit a store and hold a working unit and see how it actually feels.. as well i noticed the schizophrenic RIM UI philosophy surfaced today with the new curve that sports a touch pad and not a rolly ball jam and and goop up thang.. hmmm.
RE: RIM: “…the OS takes too long to boot, it isn’t quite as slick in terms of UI operation..it doesn’t seem quite as fast…icons look too similar…typography is horrible…font choice and anti-aliasing, and…the browser…But seriously, is any one of these so serious that it will take more than a few months to fix?”
Well, so far, RIM’s had THREE YEARS since the first iPhone appeared to fix these things and it hasn’t gotten the job done yet. The reality is that if elegant design isn’t ingrained at the core of a company’s culture it can take a VERY long time to fix issues like this — obviously years. Microsoft has been struggling with this very issue since 1985. To achieve this, designers must have equal power with engineers in a company, and be allowed to lead product development teams.
Let me add, the BB OS is borderline obsolete, the App development environment is lacking a great SDK and the company is too reliant upon half-sized screens that are too small for modern software (books, games, photography, maps, Web surfing, etc.). And did anyone else notice that RIM sold 8 million phones this quarter but only garnered 3-4 million new subscribers. Apparently, that’s what all those buy-one-phone/get-one- free specials gets the company.
Software development will sputter and RIM slowly will give back market share until it standardizes on one (perhaps two at most) screen sizes that are larger and it fixes ALL of these other issues.
Let’s face it, RIM was blindsided by the iPhone, like every other cellular manufacturer. Now the company has to change to survive.
Yeah, great analysis, except that RIM market share has gone through the roof since the iPhone came out! Back before the first iPhone was released, RIM had around 8% of the market. Since the iPhone was released, they have gone to around 20% of the market. For reference, Apple is around 13% of the market. This whole theory that RIM better learn from Apple, is a little off given that RIM would have to actually lose about 2 million sales a quarter, before they got down to Apple’s sales levels.
I’m sorry to sound like a broken record, but I’m really getting tired of these grand prognostications coming from the fact-challenged point of view that somehow Apple is outselling everyone else, when in fact they aren’t even number two. Here is a reality check for you. Nokia sold 18.4 million smartphones Q2 ‘09, RIM sold 7.6 million, and Apple only sold 5.4 million.
This relentless drumbeat that no one can compete with the iPhone is just ridiculous, when for three years now the iPhone has failed to capture the top spot anywhere but in the minds of iPhone users. Yes, one month a year, when they release a new model, it is the best selling phone, but the rest of the time it still is in the back seat watching RIM and Nokia drive the car, while Android steadily catches up.
Actually, Apple is pretty clear on that one. They are not playing the units game. They are playing the margin game and building cross product leverage.
They have levered that position into 30% of the perpetual revenue generated on 50M units and counting (people always forget the iPod Touch side of this equation, but it’s basically an iPhone without the phone), a billing relationship with 100M consumers (which has yielded 8.5B songs sold and 1.5 apps downloaded), not to mention a 75K application strong ecosystem and potent media anchor in iTunes.
Plus, they have effectively been sandbagging their numbers because they have so much accrued sales and profit generated by iPhone that previously couldn’t be recognized under the old GAAP rules, that their profits are projected to literally jump ~44% in 2009 under the new rules.
For more fodder on that one, check out:
Apple Accounting Change: Why it Matters
http://bit.ly/rCWsp
If units were the end all, be all, Nokia would be the end all, be all. They are not.
Mark
All apple fans cheer about is their profit margin and how great iTunes is.
What will apple do when they leave at&t and become just another device across other carriers .. they sure as hell won’t get $300+ margin per device .. just like Blackberry. Apple wants to live in the world of margin gain and cash stock piling .. then enjoy that and don’t expect any market share more then they have with their PC side. Small share – great profit.
Oh how I love Apple fanboy mathematics, where 30 million units sold, somehow balloons to 100 million customers, with a wave of the hand and a sideways reference to iTunes. Why don’t we adjust for reality now, and look at the fact that it is more like 15 million very dedicated customers, who keep buying every new product Apple releases, year after year, after year. I hate to burst your bubble, but the average iPod user has owned 4 of the things.
Also, make up your mind, either “They are not playing the units game,” or they have “100M consumers (which has yielded 8.5B songs sold and 1.5 apps downloaded), not to mention a 75K application strong…” Because that sure sounds like a lot of unit counting for someone who isn’t “playing the units game.”
By the way, Nokia makes about €50 billion (that would be around $73 billion at the current exchange rate) while Apple is having a really good year if they crack $40 billion (which would be about €27 billion) so whatever you mean by Nokia not being the “end all, be all” they are a more successful company than Apple, who makes more money. Now maybe Apple “isn’t playing the money game” in your mind either, at which point I don’t know what fanboy criteria you judge companies on, but most people think the company who wins the “unit game” and the “money game” is the more successful company, and that would be Nokia.
Nokia has reported a 27 per cent year-on-year drop in sales and a 96 per cent fall in operating profit as mobile phone sales plummet in the recession.
The Finnish mobile giant achieved first quarter revenue of €9.3bn (£8.2bn), down from €12.7bn (£11.3bn) in the same period last year. Operating profit was just €55m (£48.7m), compared to €1.5bn (£1.3bn) in 2008.
@JW
Uh… Nokia’s smartphone share went up last quarter. It’s been a tough half year for them but they still utterly dominate the market.
One factor to take in is in what markets those phones sold in? If Nokia is reporting World Wide sales vs Apple’s North American / European sales then the ball game might be a little different.
RIM also when up because of the general increase in consumer demand for smartphones of which Apple has also more interest.
The most interesting test will be Apple’s move into the Chinese/Asian markets, which got approved last week. RIM has been there since late 2007 and this is one huge market.
“…anyone else notice that RIM sold 8 million phones this quarter but only garnered 3-4 million new subscribers. Apparently, that’s what all those buy-one-phone/get-one- free specials gets the company.”
Where have you been? This has been the steady trend quarter over quarter. Approx 50% refresh, 50% new subs. At least this is something they can measure. It’s not all doom and gloom boys. Those who continue to think that the iPhone is the end-all device after being proven wrong month over month, apparently you’ve been blinded by fanboism.
…oh and pick an input device RIM…Trackpad? Hard Keys? Touchscreen? The BB interface is schizophrenic at it’s very core.
You’re right. Choice is a bad bad thing. :P
From Fortune 500.
“BlackBerry maker won big with consumers; its Curve is now the top-selling smartphone in the U.S.”
RIM was ranked #1 in 100 fastest growing companies.
Buy the stock this company rocks!!
Some of the biggest barriers is that system houses don’t sell actively telecommunication solutions like Blackberry to their local customers. This business is still controlled mostly by telco providers and they like more the iPhone (very high margins) or Android phones (low costs). RIM could develop its own indirect sales channel together with system houses in each market – all regions are different and need dedication to it, not a one size fits it all approach.
When I see RIM it reminds me of Apple in early days… In my opinion RIM should allow other manufacturers to build phones over their software.
RIM should find many more reasons to file more lawsuit against both Apple and Palm for patent infringement. RIM seemed to be “very good” at that.
I love my 8900. I am always jealous of the Iphone though. I hate that all the cool apps get released to the Iphone and never a second thought to blackberry.
“Presumably RIM executives would be using harsher language than that!”
No, they’re Canadians.
@Lee, Ah, the fanboy dig. In absence of compelling points, try to dismiss with the fanboy dig.
It may pain you that the market (fanboys!), imperfect though it obviously is, looks at Apple, and assigns a market cap of $163B (fanboys!) v. $39B for RIMM (fanboys!) v. $55.8B for Nokia (fanboys!).
It may pain you that AAPL in the last quarter, not even counting the new GAAP impact did $8.3B in sales, netting $1.2B and dropping another $2.3B in CASH to its now $31.1B cash hoard (fanboys!).
RIMM, by contrast (in its June quarter) did $3.4B in sales, netting $560M, and adding $180M to a good, but much smaller, hoard of $2.4B (fanboys!).
Your superior Nokia netted $380M on $9.9B of sales in the same period, which seems a much poorer return on equity, a by-product of a low margin business (fanboys!)
The point, which was lost on you, since any counter-perspective obviously provokes the non-sensical fanboys response (fanboys!) is that it’s not what you make in terms of gross sales, it’s what you KEEP in terms of profits and actual cash, and on that basis, Nokia, eh!; RIMM, very good, but apparently, vulnerable and Apple, all-world (fanboys!).
This is a by-product of a highly differentiated strategy by Apple, which only fanboy investors, consumers and developers grok (fanboys!).
Switch to decaf is my suggestion, as discourse is a good thing and need not be made so personal or cavalierly attacked with fanboy dismissals (fanboys!)
Nice try, but you are as bad at sarcasm as you are at argumentation in general. I have made several points, which I notice you completely avoid, preferring to misdirect the entire conversation to a completely different subject. I made points like that your user and market numbers are pretty much pulled out of thin air. I made points like that for all the hype, and the literally billions of dollars of advertising, the iPhone still can’t beat that “borderline obsolete” Blackberry.
Yes, the market absolutely loves hype and buzz, and Apple is the king of that. Of course at the moment the market also loves the idea of buying and securitizing life insurance policies, and it thought sub-prime mortgages were a fantastic idea as well, so I don’t know how good an endorsement the market is. Yes, Apple sells more than just phones, so has more in the bank than most of their competitors.
But then, none of this matters, because all of this is chaff you through after being caught inventing ridiculous numbers like 100M Apple customers. You can try as much as you like to change the issue to my use of the word fanboy, or a discussion about profitability, but the reality is that I call you a fanboy not because I have any problem with different points of view, but because, just like the typical Apple fanboy, you start first with your worship of your beloved company, and then work backward from there, even inventing facts and pulling dubious statistics out of thin air if need be to support your passionate devotion to the company.
You yourself can’t even decide what metric is supposed to be important. One minute it is the fictitious 100 million users, then it is the dubious claim of 50 million devices, then it is how many songs they have sold, then it is how many apps they have in the app store, no wait, forget all that, we are too cool to “play the unit game” so now it is market valuation, no wait, it is cash in the bank, no wait, it is profitability.
See, that is what makes you a fanboy. You don’t even have a coherent argument that is relevant to the discussion at hand. You aren’t even addressing the topic of the article, the original post, my response to the original post, or my response to your response. You are just going off on tangents, looking for an excuse to spout of any number, real or imagined, that you think makes your darling look good, whether it has anything to do with the subject or not. That, my dear fellow, either makes you a shill or a fanboy, and of the two I would think anyone would choose fanboy.
so much anger.
we need to articulate what we want.
not what we don’t want.
and as hard as it is, we must avoid name calling.
we must respect each other and marvel at our mutual stupidities…
I agree with you 100%, and to be clear, I like RIMM, I own and use a 7130 but also read the tea leaves after being in this business 15+ years, and see a force that is changing the rules of the game.
That is not the same as saying that everyone needs to be like iPhone. They don’t. But just throwing the same pitch over and over is a recipe for…not a good outcome.
You conveniently forgot to mention that not all of Apple’s sales came from the iPhone. Next time, try to be a little more honest. And stop plugging your blog so much…it looks needy.
Also, you still use a 7130?? Didn’t that go to the dinosaur bin 5 years back?? Get an iPhone :)
Thank you – RIMM makes one product – Blackberry. Apple has hundreds so yeah RIMM is doing pretty damn good considering.
And yes – jesus I’ll gladly send you a Curve/8820 as I have boxes of them as I refresh our installation base to Tour / Bold’s. 7130 is close to 4 years old .. No wonder you think iPhone is that much better.
Current Scenario:
1) Unique = BB Messenger
2) Unique = Superior Push Military Grade Security
I’m sure they can come up with more.
RIM, can you stop emulating IPhone’s footsteps.. i.e. 2 / 3.2 Megapixel Camera? I had my first 5 Megapixel camera equipped mobile FIVE YEARS AGO for crying out loud!!!
Start creating Apple & Android apps that allow 3rd party phones to connect to BES servers or support Exchange Sync to get reliable email service until they have a better OS to compete.
I think if Balllmer is able to recover his stronghold in the desktop OS market with windows 7, then buying RIMM would be a move to think about. It would be a good way to increase windows 7 mobile market share and get serious about competing with Apple (I’m sorry but the Zune will not catch on)
They should focus on improving the Blackberry, NOT competing with the iPhone. I like the suggestion made about a touchscreen/QWERTY phone.
Devices like the Storm have no chance at beating the iPhone at it’s own game. Nor is something like the Storm able to live up to a BB power user’s standards.
If the Blackberry continues to evolve without giving in to the iPhone, RIM will be fine.
Personally I think blackberries are nearly the perfect device. All my friends (in the 24-30 age range) say the same thing… the blackberry would be the perfect phone if it had a browser that could compete with the iphone/android/pre browsers.
I don’t need a touch screen the track ball does what i need it to and the shortcuts on the keyboard are perfect. I just wish I could look at a site like techcrunch and have it look like techcrunch… not some wordpad document.
Soon my friend, very soon. See the reference above to the Torch Mobile acquisition. That can only mean good things for the BB browser.
Seriously, RIMM has a ton o cash, and guess who has a winning handset coming out and the company is up for sale?
Motorola.
The Cliq is everything BB’s aren’t, consumer friendly.
Seriously, RIMM, buy Motorola, buy it yesterday.
Interesting. Do they have anough cash to buy Palm & Motorola? ;)
RIM is just doing something not quite right.
I agree, whereas you used to turn to a Blackberry as the only option if you wanted email on your phone, there are so many alternatives now.
Not to mention RIM just isn’t innovating fast enough. By the time the Storm hit the market, it was already old news. They just didn’t hit the spot with it.
The one thing they are going the right way with is the QWERTY keyboard. It’s their territory, and they need to keep it. But competition from Nokia is heating up in that market because the N97 has both full touch, and a nicer keyboard to use than the Bold for example. Not to mention it’s smaller, has a better camera, and more features in general.
RIM needs to keep up innovating.
However, I think they can keep a huge amount of customers happy if they worked on their brand identity. Look at Apple. People love using Apple products and feel proud to pull it out on the street.
Apple is everything to do with simplicity and good design. The thing that comes to mind when I think of RIM is… Email and keyboard. Not the same, huh?
Blackberry needs to create a persona that people see whenever they think of RIM and/or see a product. That brand identity would do RIM so much good in the short term, and an incredible amount of good in the long term if they combine it with new, innovative products.
Clearly there are people who love the BB and those who love the iPhone. The point about the BB being great for those who work is good to a point. Not everyone’s work depends upon instant email contact. Those people tend to be in sales or investing where quick response is important. Many other people work on different time frames and have different needs.
The biggest problem for RIMM, IMHO, is that the world will change within a year or two or three. Between Apple and Google the perception of what is needed and desirable in a mobile device will change and RIMM may be left behind still supporting the niche market of encrypted email on a mobile device.
RIMM is being forced into unfamiliar territory. They have had quality problems. Some 50% of the BB Tours are being returned due to failed trackballs. Ouch. They are very good at what they do, I’m skeptical that they can step out of their comfort zone and compete on a wider playing field.
Having been both a user of both Blackberries of various type and an iPhone 3G, I can say that RIM is suffering from something common in this industry.
Let let their developers direct what should be done by UX folks.
To top it off, RIM’s software suits and APIs are terrible for the developers, so it’s actually very difficult to make a real killer app. They work, but they just don’t have the UX feel they need.
What can RIM do?
- Stop trying to use the old J2ME apis designed for simpler phones.
- Throw away the crappy APIs they have and redesign them, starting with the UX design and working toward clean, easy to use API models.
- RIM’s development tools are all written in java, but you can’t install them or run them on anything but Windows… WTF?
RIM is not gone, and if they get their ducks in a row they can maintain their lead… They need a new separate team who knows nothing of the old-school ways, to design the new generation of BBOS and they better pony up fast.
gosh darn it? what the fuck is gosh darn it? does anyone actually say that?
Only in the south. They also think “y’all” is a word
@Lee Lloyd
did you just use the invented words “argumentation” and “securitization” ?
“Argumentation” is a very real word.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/argumentation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentation_theory
“Securitization” on the other hand, is a bit more murky. It isn’t a real word, it is silly business speak, but it is in common usage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securitization
They should really stop producing half-assed phones. Everyone was thinking the Storm was going to be the iPhone killer and it turned out to be a piece of sh*t. If they put more money and time into a POLISHED product they could be killing it. Instead they put out “Shones” = sh*t + phones and people aren’t finding a reason to move from Apple and the iPhone. Palm isn’t even a competitor. They don’t have the market share.
“shones”, good one. :P
If you want strip it down, BlackBerry has always made a solid “phone”. Ask anyone who has used one, because you obviously have not.
I’ve been using RIM devices for years and can definitely say their quality control has gone down the drain, especially with their newest devices. I’m sure that and releasing great phones prematurely all have an effect on their reputation and business overall.
Use the MS formula. See what competition is doing and then copy.
So for RIM, copy Apple.
Er…that’s the Apple formula. See notebooks, handhelds, etc… They *normally* aren’t on the forefront of technology. They wait for others to establish the market, learn by trial and error and then release products that attempt to improve on where the ground work has been established.
RIM should stop being douches and start becoming more interoperable. One thing would help greatly… make BES free… the fact that blackberry is the only device out there that requires licensing in order to sync contacts, calendar, and other data is just stupid. ActiveSync is free people…. blackberry sync should be too.
@AaronR – you are wrong. ActiveSync still requires a Exchange CAL per user or device so it’s not “free”. Now yes BES has a CAL per user cost but it offers way more control / security then ActiveSync so your not really comparing Apple to Apple.
Now Microsoft and growing number of 3rd party vendors would love to sell you a solution to get that greater level of control / security and yes it’s a per user CAL that is often 2x the cost of a BES cal when buying volume.
If your a small/medium business do your homework and weigh the pros / cons of each solution. For now nothing can beat BES for what it provides and their TCO / ROI.
BES is an advantage for RIM in only one market segment: large enterprise. It is a sales obstacle for many other market segments including small/medium enterprise and hosted Exchange. ActiveSync is a better solution for these market segments because it is simpler, requires no middleware and provides more features than BIS.
*disclaimer*
Our company has a great ActiveSync solution for BlackBerry:
http://www.astrasync.com
*/disclaimer/*
RIM’s market share over the last 2 years has been driven by Verizon with the Storm and the 2for1 Curves. Why? Simply because ATT has the iPhone. So much so that I’ve read that Verizon now represents 25% of RIM’s business.
Now imagine what happens if Verizon starts selling the iPhone….
Many Verizon customers are buying BlackBerry devices because they can’t buy an iPhone… and they would die before switching carrier to ATT.
BlackBerry *can* compete with iPhone…. if RIM makes some dramatic improvements in the OS *and* they jettison the NIH attitute.